This means that when exposed to the environment, it exists as a gas. Piston Slap: Booting a Torino in a snap without snaps? All these industries still have old plants that use these refrigerants. . You can get it and use it. This should give you a rough idea of how much youll need. Small NOS cans of R12 are widely available on eBay and Craigslist for about $30 apiece. The most significant disadvantage of this product is the damage that it can do to the environment if its vented irresponsibly. Theres one type of oil that will work with both refrigerants. As this chemical has both chlorine and fluorine in its make-up, it belongs to the group of chemicals known as CFCs or chlorofluorocarbons. R12 is CFC: Even though R12 is one of the most commonly used refrigerants, it is CFC. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. Hopefully Ive properly conveyed that, if the A/C in your precious vintage car is long-dead, the question isnt whether you choose between buying a few NOS cans of R12 and shooting them in (seriously dont do that) or converting to R134a. If your compressor requires replacement or its seals and o-rings need to be replaced due to leakage, it would be wise at this time to either obtain a compressor that has o-rings and seals that are compatible with R134a or have your unit re-manufactured with compatible components. SureBilt R-134a High and Low Side Service Port Repair Kit $ 5. Very few DIY-ers have recovery equipment (I dont), so you need to take the car to a shop that does, and fewer and fewer shops keep and maintain R12-recovery equipment. The common problem when converting from R12 to R134a is lack of knowledge or equipment. 29. By international agreement in 1987 (the Montreal Protocol), the use and production of CFCs such as R12 began to be phased out, with automobile manufacturers required to stop using it by the end of the 1994 model year. But the problem with R12 is twofold. Technicians must capture and recycle R134a safely, and the gas must be disposed of by following the EPA guidelines. If an A/C system isnt working, the root cause needs to be diagnosed, and the system needs to be fixed. Its cylinders are colored white. Kuehl is a registered trademark of Griffiths Technical Inc. Griffiths Technical Inc is not associated with Porsche Cars North America. How to Convert Your Car AC R12 System to R134a If youre resurrecting the A/C in a vintage car, the vast majority of the time the refrigerant has long since leaked out, but if your car has refrigerant in it, and you need to open up the A/C system to work on it, spend a little money and take the car to an A/C shop. Therefore, the R12 refrigerant is illegal, and emitting it is illegal. Because the two oils were different, R134a certainly wasnt a drop-in replacement for R12. R12s GWP is 10,910. As this chemical has carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine but no chlorine, its not dangerous to the ozone layer. However, it must be noted that itll disintegrate into toxic compounds when exposed to flame. With R134a you do not rely on the site glass. And, unfortunately a small high side pressure gauge on a short hose. This ability has encouraged R12 in a wide variety of applications and over a wide range of temperature variables. 2021 Complete Guide, Find more info about me and HVAC Training 101, Screw, roll, rotary, reciprocating, and centrifugal compressors for refrigeration and air conditioning, Used in automotive air conditioning since 1994, and has been retrofitted to many older models as a replacement to R12, Used to remove humidity from compressed air in gas dusters. If the oil didnt dissolve into the refrigerant, it would reduce the refrigerants ability to transfer heat. If your a/c system is empty/low on refrigerant, if your system has a leak or if you need to open the system, then now is the time to decide which refrigerant you want to use. It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. R134a Expansion valve different from R12? Interestingly, theres one oil type that works perfectly with both types of refrigerants. You might find that the system doesn't get as cool even after properly charging it. Theres a lot of misinformation surrounding R12. This product does contain dangerous chemicals such as methyl chloride and vinyl chloride, both of which are carcinogenic and may cause congenital disabilities. Refrigerant 12 or Freon 12 is colloquially known as R12. If he is not in the garage fixing challenging mechanical problems, he is writing automotive repair guides, buyers guides, and car and tools comparisons. They might say for instance, add 3-4 oz of oil to the compressor, 1 oz of oil for when you replace a drier, 2 oz oil for the evaporator and so on. All compressors require oils to lubricate the moving parts. As you probably know, matter can exist in three statessolid, liquid, and gas. Because of R1234yfs mild flammability, BMW and Mercedes are now adopting R744. We learned the theory behind refrigeration and air conditioning, which centers on this wonderfully useful bit of physics: When liquid boils and evaporates into a gas, it expands and cools. R134a systems operate at higher discharge-side pressures than R12, which can cause compressor seals to leak. We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. 0,008 0,01 0,012 0,014 0,016 0,018 0,02-40 -35 -30 -25 -20 -15 -10 Evaporation Temperature Mass Flow Rate R600a R134a R290 R1270 R32 . I have seen a large difference in pressures you are looking for due to temperature demand of unit. Lichamp HVAC R410A Manifold Gauge Set AC R134A, Freon R22 R32 410A 134A Diagnostic Manifold Gauge with Hose Kit Air Conditioner Refrigerant Recharge Kit Visit the Lichamp Store 403 ratings | 10 answered questions -27% $7999 List Price: $109.99 FREE Returns Available at a lower price from other sellers that may not offer free Prime shipping. Besides, R134a refrigerant was manufactured after R12 was banned to help reduce the harshness of the old chemical (R12) on the ozone layer. R134a is a greenhouse gas, while R1234yf has a lower global warming . With that said, Ill agree that the flammability issue may not be as black-and-white as it appears. Condensers designed to release greater amounts of heat help to expel the greater amount of heat which R134a removes from the cars interior. Some recovery machines are equipped for both R134a and R1234yf. Osuagwu Solomon is a certified mechanic with over a decade of experience in the mechanic garage, and he has over five years of experience in the writing industry. Well worth the money if your A/C system is still in good shape. R12 systems use screw-on connectors, while R134a systems use push-on connectors similar to those used in air tools. 135, three new EPA-approved climate-friendly alternatives., Installing a lift pump in a Duramax diesel. The 7 Best HVAC Manifold Gauges 2023 Reviews & Buying Guide Find more info about me and HVAC Training 101. Plus, not releasing the chemical into the air is morally justifiable. Since 2010, all home AC systems manufactured use a refrigerant like R134a that has zero ozone depletion potential (ODP). The two systems use different fittings. Bottom line, R134a simply doesn't cool as well as R12. In addition, there was the lubricant issue. r134a vs r12 manifold gauges.. - Slant Six Forum Therefore, the higher the factor of the chemical (compound), the greater its effect on global warming. R134a was the replacement refrigerant for R12. After the initial charge the system is then tweeked : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. R134a systems operate at higher discharge-side pressures than R12, which can cause compressor seals to leak. This chemical has carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. The global warming potential is a factor that measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas when compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. Most of all the differences gravitate to longevity, functionality, and safety. The following is verbatim from EPAs website: EPA performs random inspections, responds to tips, and pursues potential cases against violators of the Section 608 regulations. R12s ODP is 1 (the highest rating). Thus you see how R134a conversion was often applied to systems that were not working correctly, if they were working at all. All in all, I'm very happy with the results and see no reason why they won't last. When R12s effects on the ozone layer became known and it was superseded by R134a, EPA came down hard with large fines on both professionals and DIY-ers. And don't forget the high side pressures vary with ambient temperature. Ive always liked them. The global warming potential of R134a is 1430. R134a has a GWP of 1430. There should also be a blue sticker somewhere on the system telling you the date the system was converted. The problems that arise are related to the oils used in the system and the fact that they have different charge weights and different boiling points. Unfortunately, taking the longer view of things, even if you do leak-test a car thoroughly and properly all A/C systems leak eventually, so any can of R12 you put into a car will likely wind up in the atmosphere, an eventuality that I am less and less comfortable with. However, you need calibrated gauges for R410A. However, take note that R134a refrigerants are manufactured specifically for automotive air conditioners. 1. The reason is that the vehicles, for instance, manufactured currently configure the engine for R1234yf refrigerant, making no provision for replacement. On the other hand, R12 has a global warming potential of 10,910. These attributes make it very attractive for domestic refrigeration. Ed. The safe high side pressures are determined with a PT (pressures and temperatures) chart. At this point it is time to make an appointment with the a/c shop. It is a haloalkane and hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) refrigerant that has thermodynamic properties, potential global warming for one hundred years, and insignificant ozone depletion. Its unlikely that air conditioners or refrigeration plants will be converted from R12 or R134a to R22, but it can be done if reclaimed R22 refrigerant can be located. As these refrigerants are slowly phased out, there are still many questions that people have about them. Oil doesnt stay in the compressor, however, it dissolves in the liquid refrigerant and gets carried through the system as a fine particulate mist when the refrigerant goes through its liquid/gaseous transition. Many commercial enterprises that run large chillers or transport companies running reefer trailers or containers have used R12 as its a highly efficient refrigerant that provides excellent cooling. Hope this helps Reply 10-10-2020, 01:12 PM #4 Chris Stritchko Yes, theres a certain irony in the fact that weve gone full-circle from the invasive youll need to replace almost everything including the compressor and hoses in order to properly convert R12 to R134a to you dont need to replace all that much; just flush it, new oil, new drier and o-rings, and back to youll need to replace almost everything including the compressor, hoses, and the condenser. But this change has occurred both because the cars are that much older than they were when the R12 to R134a change occurred in the mid-1990s, and there is now a better understanding of the need to take advantage of updated compressors and condensers in order to get the A/C systems to blow adequately cold with R134a. Hand in hand with this is the global warming potential (GWP), which measures the gass potential as a greenhouse gas. However, you will need different recovery machines and other equipment to handle R1234yf. The non-flammables can have R22 type gas which is not compatible with most rubber hoses or they have gases that contribute to global warming. R12 fitting vs. R134a - Garage Addicted On the other hand, R12 has a global warming potential of 10,910. The concern that the original R12 hoses would leak R134a like a screen door on a submarine appeared to be largely unfounded, as the insides of original hoses seemed to naturally become impregnated with a combination of refrigerant and oil that acted as a barrier. Gauges are used to read the pressure of various liquids and gases in a cooling system, as well as vacuum pressure in the process of testing or charging the device. The issue is that you need to reach the point where the system is functional and leak-free. Since these days a can of R134a is about $15, the cost differential isnt what it was in the panicked days of the mid-1990s. Using the specs for the current system, multiply the R12 charge by 0.9 or 90% to determine the refrigerant capacity. The flammables have hydrocarbons. As part of doing that, you often wind up replacing major portions of the systemnot because thats strictly required in order to convert it to R134a, but because thats what you need to do in order to get it functional again. You can find many videos and web forum posts where people retrofit R152a into cars that originally had R12 and profess excellent results, but it is not approved by the EPA for retrofit applications, only new car applications. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. The weight is only 2.4 ounces. Its been labeled as a greenhouse gas, and its use is no longer supported. And then there is the very interesting refrigerant R152a, which is the ingredient in keyboard duster, minus the bittering agent added to prevent inhalant abuse. Before landing on the debate of R134 vs R12 you should know that both R134a and R12 are AC refrigerants types used in refrigeration and air conditioning systems. Part # LX-14. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. Usually, mechanics charge around $200 for conversion. _________________. Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. The advantage of ester oil is that it works with both R12 as well as R134a, so you can fill the system with it and then use either refrigerant.Sha. If you find any of these conditions you will want to liquid flush (with dedicated AC flush solution) all the lines, condensers, evaporator (remove the expansion valve) before you proceed further. Can You Use R134a Gauges On R410a? [ Answered ] - My Vehicle Talk But in order for refrigeration to work, you need something that has a low boiling point, something that exists as a gas at room temperature and can be easily pressurized into a liquid so that, when it is allowed to expand, it immediately boils at room temperature and cools. We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. R134a is still used in the automotive industry as a refrigerant and in other industries, such as pharmaceuticals, as a propellant. They frame it as a replacement for R134a in cars and other vehicles. As this gas has such an effect on the environment, the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) has strict guidelines for its use. In addition, there is a $10,000 rat-out fee your neighbor can collect if youre venting refrigerant and he tattles on you. Since you will be using less R134a than R12 you do not want to rely on the driers site glass to determine if the system is full. R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12. In todays world, the combination of its ozone-depleting ability and its contribution to global warming makes this product a major issue for many countries. The system will be checked for gross leaks while under vacuum. Its likely that these plants, which will be expensive to convert, will continue to use R12 with careful maintenance. Unfortunately, the widespread use of R12 appeared to be significantly degrading the Earths ozone layer, potentially causing a worldwide health crisis. link to Alternator Overcharging - Causes and Fixes, link to LS Head Bolt Torque Specs and Sequence. Initially, an invasive recipe was proposed: the system should be flushed to remove any traces of the old R12-specific mineral oil, the compressor and expansion valve should be replaced with R134a-specific versions to perform correctly, and the old hoses should be replaced with 134a-specific barrier hoses to forestall leakage. That makes it safe in terms of safety to use. Certainly no one selling cans of R12 on Craigslist is asking for your EPA 609 card. Given two identical vehicles, each with the same weighted amount of refrigerant, the vehicle with the R134a has the capability to remove more heat (measured in btus) from the vehicle than the same type of vehicle using the same amount of R12. Both of these compounds have similar cooling properties. At room temperature R410a has a pressure of nearly 200 psi, while R134a is around 70 psi. Dont do it. These factors make it a safe product for a technician to work with. A set of R134a-specific charging port adapters should be installed to eliminate the possibility of refrigerant cross-contamination. Theres no problem with using R134a in a home air conditioning system because it is a hydrofluorocarbon that doesnt cause environmental harm. These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. From this number, subtract 1/4, or 0.25 pounds. R134a is not an ozone-destroying agent, but it is a greenhouse gas, and is illegal to vent as well. Subtract or 0.25 pounds from this number. Legally. The advantage of ester oil is that it works with both R12 as well as R134a, so you can fill the system with it and then use either refrigerant. However, there wereand aresome challenges to using it in an automotive A/C system designed for R12. A gentleman in Canada was very interested until he learned about the R12. I wouldnt say Im a BMW enthusiast. Before R12 was replaced with R134a in 1995, it was mostly used in trucks and cars. Also, look for a blue sticker that gives the date of conversion. R12 is otherwise called dichlorodifluoromethane is a colorless gas (chlorofluorocarbon halomethane (CPC) that is used as an aerosol spray propellant and a refrigerant, and is soluble in organic solvents. By noting the ambient temperature you can look up what the preferred high side pressure should be. The boiling point of R134a is -15.34F (-26.3C.) Here are a few of the more common questions. When the temperature is reduced to-7C or below, the plants ability to cool the airdrops significantly. Many existing installations continue to use the product. However, its been shown that R134a is as destructive to the environment, and newer refrigerants have been created to overcome this problem. Theres no doubt that R12 refrigerant is one of the first compounds manufactured for the air conditioning and refrigeration world, but it had to be banned. Because R-12 is no longer manufactured and has not been used in cars for over 20 years, this article will focus on systems designed for R-134a. Let's talk about refridgerants: R-12a or R-134a? | TDIClub Forums Tech Talk - Differences between R-1234yf and R-134a - FJC Inc R-12 and R-134a use different size fittings in order to avoid mixing the two types of refrigerant. Swapping the components isnt a herculean task, but recharging the AC is a challenge. The air conditioning system in your car uses a combination of evaporation and condensation to cool the interior. Recharge the compressor with a/c ester oil and a tracer dye. These applications will - due to browser restrictions - send data between your browser and our server. Further production of R12 was banned in some developed countries by the Montreal Protocol because of its harsh effect on the ozone layer. 134A HVACR versus 134A Automotive..Difference?? - HVAC-Talk: Heating Failure to abide by the EPA regulations can result in expensive fines for either you or your service technician. R12 is considered to be superior in cooling to R134a. Its not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. The effect that R134a has on global warming makes this gas an unattractive product to many technicians. However, the operating pressures are reportedly four times those of other refrigerants, so retrofit appears out of the question. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Your email address will not be published. But if you live in a hot climate, want to daily-drive the car, and the car has a tiny-capacity A/C system which, even after modernization, may only perform marginally, you may want to consider sticking with R12. They behave in the same way when used in any form of refrigeration or air conditioning plant. These are the major reasons that this product is now banned in many countries and replaced by other refrigerants that dont have such a serious environmental impact. Thats not the case with R12, ensuring that the efficiency of the plant isnt compromised. These guidelines are strictly enforced, and contravention of them can lead to severe penalties being imposed. Therefore, its most suitable for both commercial and domestic environments. Google use cookies for serving our ads and handling visitor statistics. Anyway on the low side R134a runs about 2 psi lower than R12 at equivalent temperatures. We chose to use 5-6 ounces of oil to be on the safe side: 3-4 ounces for the compressor, 1 oz of oil for the drier and another ounce of oil for system losses. Do a pre-inspection and then Evacuate (vacuum down) the system, the longer the evacuation the better but there is a point of diminishing return, 2-3 hours is generally very good. R12 has a GWP of 10,910, so its effect on global warming is over 10,000 times greater than carbon dioxide. Most vehicles manufactured before 1993 have the R12 A/C system. This means that this compound is made up of carbon, chlorine, and fluorine. I can tell you that R12 is some seriously great refrigerant; it gets both of these cars meat-locker cold almost from the instant the A/C is turned on. Refrigerant: Must be EPA-approved and cannot be intentionally released (vented) into the environment. You do not want to exceed the systems high side recommendations. Both of these gasses are very safe for use in all forms of refrigeration as theyre not flammable, explosive, or toxic. R12 contains a chemical called chlorine that destroys the ozone layer, thereby causing potential environmental risk. Most countries frown on the use of these gasses due to their environmental impact. Of course, there could be other problems such as a seized compressor or a blocked expansion valve. With the differences between the two refrigerants in mind, it goes without saying that charging an R12 system with R134a can have some serious negative effects. You do not however need to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. The Internet is a large and often-strange place, and if you want to search for sites that claim that R12 isnt harmful to the ozone layer, and that the whole thing was a conspiracy by DuPont because its patent on R12 was about to expire, youll find them. With new R12 no longer being manufactured, the market price soared to $100/pound. Compatible with multiple applications: The major reason for the introduction of R134a was to replace R12, so it functions perfectly in the same range of applications like rotary, screw, and centrifugal compressors for air conditioning and refrigeration. pdrayton on Sat July 14, 2007 2:12 PM Year: 1983 Make: Mercedes Model: 240D Engine Size: 2.4 Refrigerant Type: R12 Ambient Temp: 90 Pressure Low: 35 Pressure High: ? https://www.wiseautotools.com/mountain-quick-connect-r12-ac-gauge-conversion-to-134a/ A/C gauge conversion kits from R12 to R134A. Santech R12 to R134a Coupler . This is used in automotive air conditioning in older vehicles and domestic and commercial air conditioning and refrigeration. While contained within a refrigeration system, this product is safe to use and poses no risk to the planet. Heres R12 vs. R134a pressure chart. Many older automotive systems still use R12, and as youre still able to purchase individual small cans of this refrigerant via on-line marketplaces, its use in many classic motor vehicles will likely continue. A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. Typically 5 to 6 ounces of a/c oil is adequate but this may vary depending upon the car. In addition to the low boiling point, there are two other de facto requirements for refrigerant: It shouldnt be poisonous, and it shouldnt be flammable. In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. These efforts to balance the system can not be realized if there are problems within the a/c system, such as: poor performing compressor, dirty condenser or poor air flow through the condenser, malfunctioning expansion valve, water or air in the system, improperly operating fresh air or heat input in the climate-air mixing system. EPA is authorized to assess fines of up to $37,500 per day for any violation of these regulations.. What is usually sniffed are all the connections in the system: hoses and compressor, condenser, drier, expansion valve and evaporator fittings. R134a is NOT less efficient than R12 Actually R134a is more efficient. R12 has not be manufactured for a long time it was outlawed in the US. There are many thousands of older air conditioning and refrigeration plants that use these refrigerants. Note that I am not advocating taking the exam and getting the EPA 609 certification simply so you can legally buy R12; Im just stating what the law appears to be. Boiling Point: R134a refrigerants boiling point is -26.3C (-15.34F). For instance you can evacuate FRIGC FR-12 into a refrigerant recovery bottle that has R134a in it or visa versa. This gas is then cooled via environmental means, and the gas slowly loses heat and reverts to a liquid state. Tiny amounts of oil will inevitably find their way into the stream of gas. How to Convert Your Car AC R12 System To R134a - Mechanic Base R12 and R134a are older generation refrigerants that are no longer produced nor imported into the USA. What's the difference between these and how do. R12 uses mineral oil, but R134a wont dissolve in mineral oil. The conversion to more modern refrigerants will require a replacement of the system, which will cause issues in terms of originality when showing this type of vehicle. We suggest dumping the old refrigerant oil in a clean container and inspect the oil for sludge or waxing (old oil that has gelled) and contamination (metal particles).
What Happened To Koepplinger's Health Bread,
Position Velocity Acceleration Calculus Calculator,
Dreams About Yelling At Your Dad,
Greg Jackson Attorney,
Articles D
